Confessions of a SFIV Newbie...

[JDdelphin]

-did you notice sakuras best anti air?
I did it too you enough in that one match...


-you also should notice how many more times other characters need to get hit than she does ( I tried to illustrate that with Balrog by just walking in an letting you pepper me over and over- then I gave you 5 good ones and you were out.
You can't just go toe to toe with most guys with her and expect to come out on top (unless you out time/guess someone every time (which IS possible)

-you also need to watch out about cornering yourself and figure out general ways to get you OUT of a corner- after that round you took and I gave it 100% serious bizzness and perfected you: all I had to do was corner you and put on the pressure.

(also with C.Viper you gotta block the ultra low, that's all)
-you have to remember to be aware of when people have an ultra stored up- and avoid setting yourself up for them, and try to learn other peoples setups for them-
Like Sakura's EX hurricane into her Ultra that I did on you- or even Dan's SUPER TAUNT that I did early (and you whacked me out of) only to do it AGAIN later (to set you up to try to whack me out of it again only to eat the Ultra) or how Gouken can toss you in the air with his normal throw to set up his Ultra...

-you need to watch out for porential chip damage too- blocking isn't always the best answer (especially for low life characters like Sakura) many many times I beat you (in what WOULD have been the final best of three round if we weren't playing best 'o 5) with a chip damage super or ultra....

uhmmmmm like I said - it'd be easier to just talk to you during to explain all this in real time...

Oh yeah cross-up attacks: if someone is over to the point of their hitbox being behind you- you can't block it, so you have to watch out for them. (-like with el Fuerte. I just kept running at you and body pressing over and over- you were blocking, but I was crossing over to behind you so it still hit you. I'm sure that was a WTF HAX moment)

there's probably more, but... I can't think of it.

Just remember- apart from general practical knowledge (hitboxes, special moves, stuns, etc), you need to know how to adapt and respond to your opponent as a player more than anything-
-like any game, it's about reading your opponent.
Like all those times I stopped being tit for tat and turned up the pressure- shit was coming at you too fast and I knew I could just reversal hit you over and over.
Or when you had me  down and I was close to being K.O'ed: "He's desperate to finish it, he's going try to rush me down and finish me." I can just back away and hit you with a big move or just Ultra you right there the moment you stick your poke out.

Eventually, you get to the point of: "he knows that I know that he knows that I know his favorite patterns... so if he knows that I know that- he won't do them, BUT since he knows that I know that HE knows that I know- he MIGHT just try to scrub it out with his basic stuff..." and that's fun, and that's what it's all about

[JDdelphin]

Join the club - I once got perfected by nothing but electricity, and none of them were stupid situations where I could have just done a sweep.

Yeah, I really need to work on my electricity placements- I get too focused on brankabawlz

AROOOO!

[LordVermin]

I learned that I allow myself to jump in far too often, leaving myself suspect to easy anti-air stuff.

This is common, don't worry. I STILL jump too much.

I also need to remember to stay back a little sometimes when I've got a uppercut user down...got punished WAY too many times against guys like Akuma, Ryu, Sakura, etc. by just being too close and getting clocked by dragon punches.

... or you could wait for them to do their "sure fire" uppercut, block it since you knew it was coming, and then punish them on the way down.

 

Something to think about.

The main people I had problems with were Blanka...

Everybody has problems with Blanka

He's a mix-up character, there's not a whole lot in the way of pre-planning you can do with him. You have to be able to react to what he's doing in real time and that's hard for a mental sloth like myself sometimes.

[JDdelphin]

... or you could wait for them to do their "sure fire" uppercut, block it since you knew it was coming, and then punish them on the way down.

 

Something to think about.

 
-there are few things as satisfying as shoryuken-baiting.
(seeing something coming is good- but provoking someone is better)
 

[CommanderDuff]

JD FIGHT ME!!!!

[FWL Innovator]

I learned that I allow myself to jump in far too often, leaving myself suspect to easy anti-air stuff. I also just need to play against everyone a lot and learn what they do and how to block it, let alone how to counter it. There was a lot of stuff where I just went "WTF?" and watched for a second to see how the move hit, where it hit and how I would have to block it, then went "ohhh" and tried to block it the next time you went for it. Sometimes I was successful, sometimes I wasn't, but I was learning by getting hit quite a bit.

I also need to remember to stay back a little sometimes when I've got a uppercut user down...got punished WAY too many times against guys like Akuma, Ryu, Sakura, etc. by just being too close and getting clocked by dragon punches.

One thing you can be proud of is the fact that you're playing with an open mind.  You've acknowledged your flaws, and you're trying to find ways around them.  Some people just complain about this move being cheap, or that character being broken, and never take any responsibility for their own mistakes.  I was going to recommend David Sirlin's Playing to Win, but it looks like you already understand his viewpoint.  Just in case, you can find it at http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

[FishHook]

-did you notice sakuras best anti air?
I did it too you enough in that one match...

Uhhhh, probably would have remembered it if you asked me last night right after the fight (again, communication)...pretty sure it was the light Shoryuken or it was the back crouching heavy punch, which gives you an uppercut. I've had a bit of problem connecting with her Shoryuken as anti-air because of the slide start-up it has, but I'll work on it as well as the crouch upper.

-you also should notice how many more times other characters need to get hit than she does ( I tried to illustrate that with Balrog by just walking in an letting you pepper me over and over- then I gave you 5 good ones and you were out.
You can't just go toe to toe with most guys with her and expect to come out on top (unless you out time/guess someone every time (which IS possible)

Yeah, I certainly noticed that...I'm pretty sure Sak's got the lowest stamina in the game, right? One of the lowest, anyways. Definitely need to kinda stick and move with her a bit more. Her best stuff is up close, she does a good majority of her damage that way because her projectiles aren't that great, I know that...but she's too physically weak to stay inside quite a bit of the time and bully like you would with a Gief/Honda. It needs to be more get in, get out I guess.

-you also need to watch out about cornering yourself and figure out general ways to get you OUT of a corner- after that round you took and I gave it 100% serious bizzness and perfected you: all I had to do was corner you and put on the pressure.

I guess if there was one point where I got a little frustrated, it was that, when I was trapped in a corner and trying to get out. I got out OK one or two times, but I got caught a LOT. Definitely something I need to work on.

Oh yeah cross-up attacks: if someone is over to the point of their hitbox being behind you- you can't block it, so you have to watch out for them. (-like with el Fuerte. I just kept running at you and body pressing over and over- you were blocking, but I was crossing over to behind you so it still hit you. I'm sure that was a WTF HAX moment)

OK, this confused me a bit...so I'd need to wait and hit the block in the opposite direction than the way I actually was blocking, right? Or is it that I can't block it at all and I have to either move out of the way or counter? This crossed me up...which is why it's called cross-up, I s'pose.

Or when you had me  down and I was close to being K.O'ed: "He's desperate to finish it, he's going try to rush me down and finish me." I can just back away and hit you with a big move or just Ultra you right there the moment you stick your poke out.

So, basically: patience. When the life meter's low, don't change tactics and try to rush in just because the life meter's low. Remain patient, look for openings.

or even Dan's SUPER TAUNT that I did early (and you whacked me out of) only to do it AGAIN later (to set you up to try to whack me out of it again only to eat the Ultra)

I felt this was about the stupidest thing I did all night...I watched enough Dan before buying the game to know the Supertaunt is Ultra cancel city, but I found myself throwing the same sweep I did the first time. Just keeping an eye on the Ultra meter should keep me out of that one in the future.

... or you could wait for them to do their "sure fire" uppercut, block it since you knew it was coming, and then punish them on the way down.

 

Something to think about.

D'oh. Sounds so simple when you put it like that. And then, unless they're not smart, they won't try it again. OK.






I'm just thinking out loud in this post, please do tell me if I've got it right or if I'm talking out of my ass. 

[JDdelphin]

I've had a bit of problem connecting with her Shoryuken as anti-air because of the slide start-up it has, but I'll work on it as well as the crouch upper.

-her shoryuken is one of the big reasons you can't play her like Ryu/the other shotodudes effectively. Crouching HP is the way to be.

Or is it that I can't block it at all and I have to either move out of the way or counter? This crossed me up...which is why it's called cross-up, I s'pose.

^this. (usually) Especially with Fuerte. He's got the unique ability to trap you not in a corner or at a distance away from him but standing in one place. When you're trying to get up or 'during wakeup' he has a huge mix of effective attacks to keep you down- and a lot of characters have a rough time playing that game.
If you see a guy has brains enough to cross you up (as anyone) he's going to try to do it as much as possible, so strategies against it are always good to have (if you don't have a get out of jail free jab DP)

JD FIGHT ME!!!!

[LordVermin]

Yeah, I certainly noticed that...I'm pretty sure Sak's got the lowest stamina in the game, right? One of the lowest, anyways.

Hers isn't great, but it's still better than Akuma's and Seth's.

If you see a guy has brains enough to cross you up (as anyone) he's going to try to do it as much as possible, so strategies against it are always good to have (if you don't have a get out of jail free jab DP)

One of the wonderful properties of Zangief's splash is it can stuff DP's when used as a cross-up.


Also, Fish: cross-ups are why the absolute LAST thing you ever want to have happen is for Zangief to knock you down. It's better to take an SPD than a knockdown sometimes because at least with the SPD Zangief has to close the distance to you again. If he gets you in knockdown, it opens up SO many attack options:


 - Cross-up splash followed by a combo that ends with an EX banishing flat for another knockdown
 - Cross-up splash, low short kick, lariat combo ends in another knockdown
 - Cross-up splash, use low jabs to hit confirm a combo and if they block, SPD
 - Empty jump to fake the cross-up and SPD when you land
 - Fake the cross-up and do a normal splash that their reverse blocking will walk right into, finish with a combo to knockdown
 - Do nothing at all, baiting a reversal attempt and punishing
 - Simply stand and SPD when they get up
 - Jumping short kick knee to a tick throw (double german) which gets you back in knockdown
 - Jumping short kick knee to fake the tick throw and go low for a combo that puts you back in knockdown
 - Jumping short kick knee, then block their reversal attempt and punish (works great on Shotos, they love their reversal DP's)


... I could go on, but you get the idea. The cross-up is almost as dangerous just as a threat as it is in actual practice.


The key to fighting him with Sakura is to stay mobile. Your first thought is going to be "STAY AWAY", but Sakura can't beat anybody by staying away. You've GOT to go in. You never, ever want to be standing on the ground in front of him with any character, not even in a Zangief mirror match. That doesn't mean you have to stay away from him. It just means you have to stay mobile. Jump a lot - Zangief's anti-air options are crummy and jumping is the number one way to make command throws whiff. Use pokes and normals that are relatively safe and push him away somewhat. Make sure your blockstrings end with you safely out of SPD range (which can be deceptively long). Her hurricane kick is relatively safe, but never ever use her shoryuken unless you can catch Zangief in a lariat - her shoryuken will go under Zangief's arms and beat the lariat clean every time, but otherwise you're asking to get raped.

And for God's sake, don't even try blockstrings while he has his Ultra up. If you screw up one link you're going for a short ride with a very bad landing (450+ damage vs Sakura's 950 total health). Fighting Zangief is one of those situations where you can play flawlessly until you have him down to 10% life - and with Sakura's damage versus Zangief's massive amount of health, that takes a WHILE of flawless play - and then you make one mistake and you're dead in four moves. That's just how it goes. Fight him enough and the words "FOR MOTHER RUSSIA" are going to make you damn near piss yourself.



 

[deepshock]

..I'm pretty sure Sak's got the lowest stamina in the game...

Actually it's 950 according to eventhubs, same with Rose and Cammy. Chun Li, Viper, Dhalsim, Gen and Fuerte have 900, Akuma has 850, and Seth has 700. 950 still isn't very good.

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/05/stamina-stun-dash-and-jump-rankings-street-fighter-4/

[FishHook]

terrifying gief strategy

FOR MOTHER RUSSIA

*pisses self*
 





But seriously, I was in study hall today thinking about some really basic Sakura strategies (one of the guys I hadn't documented yet was Gief, so thanks for that   ) and I banked on a lot of my future strategies involving Sakura's main strength over the other shotos: her speed of movement (one of the reasons I liked her in the first place, really). A lot of jumping and motion to avoid getting pummeled up close and getting caught in a defensive guessing game I'm not particularly good at yet was actually one of my main ideas for combating a lot of the bigger guys like Abel, Honda, Balrog, and Gief. I've already figured backing up and CHUCKIN' DAT PLASMA isn't gonna work with Sakura, she just doesn't have the power in her ranged stuff to do anything effective unless I have enough meter to spare to throw an EX fireball, and I've really only found it effective thus far to go through some other projectiles.



I figure I'm going to have to get crushed by a lot of good cross-up games before I figure out how to get out of the situation effectively, as I had next to no answer to the stuff JD was hitting me with last night with Fuerte, and that was basic compared to what you just described.

[JDdelphin]

indeed.

right now it's getting you to 'feel' how things work-
you can read theory all day, but it's only after you are in there with someone moving around and hitting you that stuff can really clarify.

-another thing if you are sticking with sakura (for whatever reason, personally I think you is nuts-it'd drive me crazy, but that's whats great about SF flavors for everyone )
-is you have to become very aware of meter management as her EX moves are her best weapons (like E.Honda)

check this out with the annotations and try to pay more attention to the overall meter awareness theme and what she can get away with safely (since like it's been said, with a lot of characters one big mistake or failure to adapt quickly can kill you dead fast)

Sakura mix ups (with match commentary)

-there really are very few situations where her shoryuken or fireball are NEEDED. She really is about her own style and her kicks

[FishHook]

So I actually got some wins online today. Granted, most of them were probably new players like me with near-translucent strategies, but still better than getting completely crushed every go.

I basically decided to keep it simple and just look for mix-up opportunities off of EX Hurricanes, no matter who I was playing against. I got a couple of good ones in, which were the ones that drained a lot of health and got me most of those wins I was talking about. I think I actually probably used it too much, kinda seemed like I was spamming it at points. Need to tone some of those down next group of fights, keep people guessing.

My anti-air's still pretty iffy (Sak just doesn't have a ton of options aside from basically one attack, led to me getting annihilated by a Vega who kept jumping around) and I still do some stupid things (mainly not thinking and getting caught with uppercuts on stand-up...still), but I feel little improvements.

[CommanderDuff]

Sakura's crouching fierce is the second best AA normal in the game (right behind Guile's). It almost doesn't matter what position the opponent is at when they jump, just time it so your fist hits the air the moment they are on top of you. I've tried this in training mode, it beats out quite a few jumping attacks.

[deepshock]

Sakura's crouching fierce is the second best AA normal in the game (right behind Guile's). It almost doesn't matter what position the opponent is at when they jump, just time it so your fist hits the air the moment they are on top of you. I've tried this in training mode, it beats out quite a few jumping attacks.

Yeah, pretty much this. Strangely enough it's the only one I haven't quite been able to do reliably and on time yet.

Also, train the hell out of Sakura Otoshi. Learn to hit it reliably. The EX version will save your ass.

DP+K, Punch, Punch, Punch

A common combo with that is EX Shunpukyaku then either the regular or the EX Otoshi.

Finally, you can avoid the 'oopsie' slide even if you hit a punch button during the jump and miss. You only get the oopsie if you never hit punch during it.